Pilot Conversation: 1/28/05 to 1/31/05
The CAB wants YOU!
-- Original Message --
Subject: [Opensolaris-discuss] The CAB wants YOU!
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 11:42:01 -0800
From: Ben Rockwood <benr@cuddletech.com>
To: opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Thought I'd start a new thread because the old one was diverging.
Remember guys, nominations and discussion run untill Tuesday the 8th of Feb!
Please refer back to Jim's notice on the 24th. That means we've got 9 more
days to hash all this out. Those 2 seats are going to be extremely
important
to this project moving forward and now is our time to beat each other up
and figure out who is best for all of us. If in March you suddenly
decide the
people in the external CAB seats don't have a clue you'll be out of luck.
To recap things till now, there are 3 nominations in the bag so far:
1) Joerg Schilling
2) Rich Teer
3) Ben Rockwood
Remember, you CAN SELF NOMINATE! If you want to have a shot, toss
your name in the hat now and tell us why you'd be good. I for one want
to make sure that absolutely no one who is interested is denied at least
the chance to take the post. It's a big chance and great oppertunity
although
a lot of work and responsablility.
Nominations end on the 9th! Ballots and voting for 1 week starting the
15th.
And this assumes we don't compress the timeline as earlier suggested.
Don't allow yourself to be left out! Choice is good. 
benr.
-- Original Message --
Subject: Re: [Opensolaris-discuss] The CAB wants YOU!
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 14:25:31 -0600 (CST)
From: Al Hopper <al@logical-approach.com>
To: opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
On Fri, 28 Jan 2005, Ben Rockwood wrote:
... snip ...
> Remember, you CAN SELF NOMINATE! If you want to have a shot, toss
> your name in the hat now and tell us why you'd be good. I for one want
> to make sure that absolutely no one who is interested is denied at least
> the chance to take the post. It's a big chance and great oppertunity
> although
> a lot of work and responsablility.
Does anyone on this list have, even a guess, as to what time committment
would be required of a CAB member? In terms of average hours/day.
My guess is that this looks like a full time committment (8+ hours a day)?
One of the worst possible outcomes, IMHO, is that one or more CAB members
could become a bottleneck to the entire OpenSolaris program, if they were
not able to meet the required time committment[1]
And then there is a steep learning curve in almost every area:
a) the source code itself
b) established Sun methods & procedures
c) how best to utilize and/or modify established Sun methods & procedures
d) comparison of proposed solutions with common Open Source methodologies
e) face time (meet the players, press, community members, Sun mgmt etc)
After a basic set of, for example, code submission guidelines are in place,
you'd have the "gnunt" work of technical review, how the changes would
affect both the short term and long term technical direction of Solaris,
dealing one-on-one with the submitter(s), refining submittals to meet the
required technical and documentation standards and the followup testing
activity.
Even without the steep learning curve - the ongoing code submission review
workload could overpower a CAB volunteer.
I'm assuming that this would be a one year, minimum, committment?
Since there would have to be a burnout factor involved with work at this
demanding technical level.
Comments?
Note [1]: Recommendation - have at least one alternate that's a non-voting
member of the CAB in case one of the CAB members is unable to meet his/her
committments due to circumstances outside of his/her control (death in
family, health emergency, car accident, loss of employment etc. etc.).
PS: All of the above makes me reluctant to self nominate - as there is
already considerable pressure on my time and I prefer to write code!
Regards,
Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al@logical-approach.com
Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134
-- Original Message --
Subject: Re: [Opensolaris-discuss] The CAB wants YOU!
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 12:47:34 -0800
From: Ben Rockwood <benr@cuddletech.com>
To: Al Hopper <al@logical-approach.com>
CC: opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Al Hopper wrote:
>On Fri, 28 Jan 2005, Ben Rockwood wrote:
>
>... snip ...
>
>
>>Remember, you CAN SELF NOMINATE! If you want to have a shot, toss
>>your name in the hat now and tell us why you'd be good. I for one want
>>to make sure that absolutely no one who is interested is denied at least
>>the chance to take the post. It's a big chance and great oppertunity
>>although
>>a lot of work and responsablility.
>>
>>
>
>Does anyone on this list have, even a guess, as to what time committment
>would be required of a CAB member? In terms of average hours/day.
>My guess is that this looks like a full time committment (8+ hours a day)?
>
>
The following comes from the origonal mail sent by Jim:
"The initial term of duty for elected pilot community members is 1 year.
The board will have its own mail list for discussions and will meet via
conference calls every two weeks. The time commitment at a minimum will
be approximately 8 hours a month. If the board wants to change any of
these items, it surely can. We want to keep the process and the role of
the board as light as possible initially, so the board itself can define
much of its own role."
I will admit that even though I'd consider being on the CAB a _massive_
honor
I'm alittle scared and unsure if I could hold down current projects,
non-CAB
OpenSolaris projects and commitments (blogs, code, docs, PR, etc), a
"real" job,
plus still spend time with my beloved wife, child and child on the way
(Due in July).
It's going to be a lot of work I think... maybe it won't be so bad but
I'm an
"expect the worst hope for the best" sort of person and the CAB seats
are going
to be very high profile, or at least we shouldn't be supprised if they are.
>One of the worst possible outcomes, IMHO, is that one or more CAB members
>could become a bottleneck to the entire OpenSolaris program, if they were
>not able to meet the required time committment[1]
>
>And then there is a steep learning curve in almost every area:
>a) the source code itself
>b) established Sun methods & procedures
>c) how best to utilize and/or modify established Sun methods & procedures
>d) comparison of proposed solutions with common Open Source methodologies
>e) face time (meet the players, press, community members, Sun mgmt etc)
>
>
Almost everything can/should be able to be done remotely. In fact
I would see not being face-to-face involved as a bonus. For instance, I
live in the valley meaning that I can (and some times do) have lunch on
campus, is that a good or bad thing? I dunno.
But I think most of us will have these same learning curves to cope
with whether we're on the CAB or not. Although, your point is well
taken, if your not on the CAB you can take your time whereas CAB
members are gonna get hit with it pretty quickly.
>After a basic set of, for example, code submission guidelines are in place,
>you'd have the "gnunt" work of technical review, how the changes would
>affect both the short term and long term technical direction of Solaris,
>dealing one-on-one with the submitter(s), refining submittals to meet the
>required technical and documentation standards and the followup testing
>activity.
>
>
This actually is flexable... the CAB can decide if they do code
review or someone else does. I'd think we'd agree that the point
of the CAB is to drive the framework, not the code, so I'd personally
want to put in place a technical code review board or something for
code review, but then that'll all be decided. This is why I don't
think that CAB members really need to be mega-technical kernel hackers
just to serve.
>Even without the steep learning curve - the ongoing code submission review
>workload could overpower a CAB volunteer.
>
>
>I'm assuming that this would be a one year, minimum, committment?
>Since there would have to be a burnout factor involved with work at this
>demanding technical level.
>
>
Ya, 1 year. Thats a long time. And the first year is going to be
the toughest because there is no benchmark to follow.
>Comments?
>
>Note [1]: Recommendation - have at least one alternate that's a non-voting
>member of the CAB in case one of the CAB members is unable to meet his/her
>committments due to circumstances outside of his/her control (death in
>family, health emergency, car accident, loss of employment etc. etc.).
>
>
I'd agree. An alternate might be a good idea. Both an internal
and external alternate. I like that. But then again, the CAB upon
forming could make that sort of decision. In following with the
current spirit I'd probly say that would be the CAB's perogative.
Another, unlikely, but possible problem would be if: A) an external
CAB member was or wanted to be hired into Sun, or B) an internal
CAB member left the organization.
>PS: All of the above makes me reluctant to self nominate - as there is
>already considerable pressure on my time and I prefer to write code!
>
>
I agree with you there. Not to mention that if you do something
unpopular by any part of the community your good name gets to
go through the mud (as it probly should be).
benr.
-- Original Message --
Subject: Re: [Opensolaris-discuss] The CAB wants YOU!
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 22:56:51 +0200
From: Cyril Plisko <Cyril.Plisko@CLLF.COM>
Organization: Cloverleaf Communications
To: Al Hopper <al@logical-approach.com>
CC: opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Al Hopper wrote:
[snipped]
>
> Comments?
>
I feel like you've just read my mind. Started to write an email, but
then your message arrived...
[snipped again]
>
> PS: All of the above makes me reluctant to self nominate - as there is
> already considerable pressure on my time and I prefer to write code!
I am just back from the business trip and it gave me some time to think
about the CAB self nomination - I came to the same conclusion as Al.
The time commitment would be far beyond what I can really make. At this
point I'd rather pour my time into PPC port.
Regards,
Cyril
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 05:42 am, Ben Rockwood wrote:
> Thought I'd start a new thread because the old one was diverging.
>
> Remember guys, nominations and discussion run untill Tuesday the 8th of
> Feb! Please refer back to Jim's notice on the 24th. That means we've got 9
> more days to hash all this out. Those 2 seats are going to be extremely
> important
> to this project moving forward and now is our time to beat each other up
> and figure out who is best for all of us. If in March you suddenly
> decide the
> people in the external CAB seats don't have a clue you'll be out of luck.
>
> To recap things till now, there are 3 nominations in the bag so far:
> 1) Joerg Schilling
> 2) Rich Teer
> 3) Ben Rockwood
>
> Remember, you CAN SELF NOMINATE! If you want to have a shot, toss
> your name in the hat now and tell us why you'd be good. I for one want
> to make sure that absolutely no one who is interested is denied at least
> the chance to take the post. It's a big chance and great oppertunity
> although
> a lot of work and responsablility.
>
> Nominations end on the 9th! Ballots and voting for 1 week starting the
> 15th.
> And this assumes we don't compress the timeline as earlier suggested.
>
> Don't allow yourself to be left out! Choice is good.
>
> benr.
-- Original Message --
Subject: Re: [Opensolaris-discuss] The CAB wants YOU!
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 14:41:41 -0800
From: Christopher P Johnson <Christopher.P.Johnson@sun.com>
To: bobl@optushome.com.au
CC: opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Thanks for all the nominations so far - IMHO it's good to have a broad
range of candidates for everyone to consider. Hopefully we'll have a
spot on the pilot wiki soon to collect short bios/statements/pics.
Concerning the time commitment, It was identified as 8 hours a month
minimum in Jim's original mail; though modifiable by the board itself,
it shouldn't be an infinite time sink (8+ hour days etc.)
I'm guessing the board is expected more to delegate, as opposed to
taking on a huge load themselves.
P.S. Speaking as myself, not a part of the CAB process, etc.
> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 05:42 am, Ben Rockwood wrote:
>
>>Thought I'd start a new thread because the old one was diverging.
>>
>>Remember guys, nominations and discussion run untill Tuesday the 8th of
>>Feb! Please refer back to Jim's notice on the 24th. That means we've got 9
>>more days to hash all this out. Those 2 seats are going to be extremely
>>important
>>to this project moving forward and now is our time to beat each other up
>>and figure out who is best for all of us. If in March you suddenly
>>decide the
>>people in the external CAB seats don't have a clue you'll be out of luck.
>>
>>To recap things till now, there are 3 nominations in the bag so far:
>>1) Joerg Schilling
>>2) Rich Teer
>>3) Ben Rockwood
>>
>>Remember, you CAN SELF NOMINATE! If you want to have a shot, toss
>>your name in the hat now and tell us why you'd be good. I for one want
>>to make sure that absolutely no one who is interested is denied at least
>>the chance to take the post. It's a big chance and great oppertunity
>>although
>>a lot of work and responsablility.
>>
>>Nominations end on the 9th! Ballots and voting for 1 week starting the
>>15th.
>>And this assumes we don't compress the timeline as earlier suggested.
>>
>>Don't allow yourself to be left out! Choice is good.
>>
>>benr.
-- Original Message --
Subject: Re: [Opensolaris-discuss] The CAB wants YOU!
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 20:03:16 -0800
From: James Grisanzio <Jim.Grisanzio@Sun.COM>
To: opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Yes. Tom is no longer in the program. He pulled out himself.
We are currently at 77 external people. I currently have about 20 in
line in various stages of approval. We have 10 countries represented now
(we just brought in some guys from China today and we have some guys
from India coming in next week). I'm going to close the program at the
end of February because at that point we'll be in full launch
development mode. We'll end up with anywhere between 90 and 100 or so,
which is just where we wanted to be.
I'll work on the wiki on Monday. Perhaps we can use the wiki to post the
nominees and they can write up some basic bio info. I think this was
discussed earlier (I'll have to check earlier emails on this list).
Jim
-- Original Message --
Subject: Re: [Opensolaris-discuss] The CAB wants YOU!
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 20:08:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Rich Teer <rich.teer@rite-group.com>
To: James Grisanzio <Jim.Grisanzio@Sun.COM>
CC: opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
On Fri, 28 Jan 2005, James Grisanzio wrote:
> We are currently at 77 external people. I currently have about 20 in
> line in various stages of approval. We have 10 countries represented now
That's pretty impressive! How about an up to date breakdown
of the numbers by country? 2:1 you still have one of us Canucks
down as an American... :-)
--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, author of "Solaris Systems Programming"
President,
Rite Online Inc.
Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich
-- Original Message --
Subject: Re: [Opensolaris-discuss] The CAB wants YOU!
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 21:50:47 -0800
From: James Grisanzio <Jim.Grisanzio@Sun.COM>
To: Rich Teer <rich.teer@rite-group.com>
CC: opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Rich Teer wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Jan 2005, James Grisanzio wrote:
>
>
>>We are currently at 77 external people. I currently have about 20 in
>>line in various stages of approval. We have 10 countries represented now
>
>
> That's pretty impressive! How about an up to date breakdown
> of the numbers by country? 2:1 you still have one of us Canucks
> down as an American... :-)
Perhaps I have. I can't keep the two countries straight. The last time I
was in Canada I got into a nasty bar fight, too. Perhaps I'm blocking.
- USA: 47
- UK: 7
- Germany: 6
- China: 5
- Australia: 4
- Canada: 3
- Poland: 2
- Israel: 1
- Belgium: 1
- France: 1
-- Original Message --
Subject: Re: [Opensolaris-discuss] The CAB wants YOU!
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 23:06:34 -0800
From: Alan DuBoff <Alan.DuBoff@Sun.Com>
Reply-To: Alan DuBoff <Alan.DuBoff@Sun.Com>
Organization: Solaris x86 Engineering
To: James Grisanzio <Jim.Grisanzio@Sun.COM>, Rich Teer <rich.teer@rite-group.com>
CC: opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
On Friday 28 January 2005 09:50 pm, James Grisanzio wrote:
> Rich Teer wrote:
> > On Fri, 28 Jan 2005, James Grisanzio wrote:
> >>We are currently at 77 external people. I currently have about 20 in
> >>line in various stages of approval. We have 10 countries represented now
> >
> > That's pretty impressive! How about an up to date breakdown
> > of the numbers by country? 2:1 you still have one of us Canucks
> > down as an American... :-)
>
> Perhaps I have. I can't keep the two countries straight. The last time I
> was in Canada I got into a nasty bar fight, too. Perhaps I'm blocking.
>
> - USA: 47
> - UK: 7
> - Germany: 6
> - China: 5
> - Australia: 4
> - Canada: 3
> - Poland: 2
> - Israel: 1
> - Belgium: 1
> - France: 1
Ok, look...everytime I see something it reminds me of someone I'd like to
nominate for CAB.
Now I spotted Poland, and it reminded me of Mariusz Zynel. He maintains a
great site, solaris-x86.org, and authored one of the standard documents used
for muitiboot on x86/AMD64 hardware, and a long time supporter of Solaris.
Is it possible that we just nominate all of the folks in the pilot?<G>
Alan DuBoff - Sun Microsystems
Solaris x86 Engineering
-- Original Message --
Subject: Re: [Opensolaris-discuss] The CAB wants YOU!
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 12:16:21 +0100
From: Joerg Schilling <schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de>
To: opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org, bobl@optushome.com.au
Robert Lunnon <bobl@optushome.com.au> wrote:
It may make sense to first discuss what kind of skills we would expect from
CAB members.
Jörg
-- Original Message --
Subject: Re: [Opensolaris-discuss] The CAB wants YOU!
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 12:26:28 +0000 (GMT)
From: Peter C. Tribble <ptribble@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk>
Reply-To: Peter C. Tribble <ptribble@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk>
To: Jim.Grisanzio@Sun.COM
CC: opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Jim,
>>>> That's pretty impressive! How about an up to date breakdown
>>>> of the numbers by country? 2:1 you still have one of us Canucks
>>>> down as an American... :-)
>>>
>>>Perhaps I have. I can't keep the two countries straight. The last time I
>>>was in Canada I got into a nasty bar fight, too. Perhaps I'm blocking.
>>>
>>>- USA: 47
>>>- UK: 7
>>>- Germany: 6
>>>- China: 5
>>>- Australia: 4
>>>- Canada: 3
>>>- Poland: 2
>>>- Israel: 1
>>>- Belgium: 1
>>>- France: 1
How about the names? I sure would like to know who's involved (especially
those other UK members!).
-Peter Tribble
MRC Rosalind Franklin Centre for Genomics Research
http://www.rfcgr.mrc.ac.uk/~ptribble/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/
-- Original Message --
Subject: Re: [Opensolaris-discuss] The CAB wants YOU!
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 22:40:09 +1000
From: Robert Lunnon <bobl@optushome.com.au>
Reply-To: bobl@optushome.com.au
To: Joerg Schilling <schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de>
CC: opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
For the Nomination this isn't necessary, since anyone can nominate, but before
the election there will hopefully be a vibrant discussion. Otherwise, I agree
wholeheartedly, and in fact I already addressed this issue in a post entitled
"CAB Makeup" a few days ago, though the discussion hasn't gone far yet. The
post just outlines my view on desirable attributes, but I'm sure there are
other important things I missed.
Bob
-- Original Message --
Subject: Re: [Opensolaris-discuss] The CAB wants YOU!
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:41:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Rich Teer <rich.teer@rite-group.com>
To: Alan DuBoff <Alan.DuBoff@sun.com>
CC: James Grisanzio <Jim.Grisanzio@Sun.COM>, Open Solaris <opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org>
On Fri, 28 Jan 2005, Alan DuBoff wrote:
> Is it possible that we just nominate all of the folks in the pilot?<G>
That'd certainly save you a lot of typing! :-)
--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, author of "Solaris Systems Programming"
President,
Rite Online Inc.
Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich
-- Original Message --
Subject: Re: [Opensolaris-discuss] The CAB wants YOU!
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 13:21:42 -0800
From: Alan DuBoff <Alan.DuBoff@sun.com>
Reply-To: Alan DuBoff <Alan.DuBoff@sun.com>
Organization: Solaris x86 Engineering
To: Rich Teer <rich.teer@rite-group.com>
CC: James Grisanzio <Jim.Grisanzio@Sun.COM>, Open Solaris <opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org>
On Saturday 29 January 2005 11:41 am, Rich Teer wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Jan 2005, Alan DuBoff wrote:
> > Is it possible that we just nominate all of the folks in the pilot?<G>
>
> That'd certainly save you a lot of typing! :-)
I'm all for that!<g>
--
Alan DuBoff - Sun Microsystems
Solaris x86 Engineering
-- Original Message --
Subject: Re: [Opensolaris-discuss] The CAB wants YOU!
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 16:15:27 -0800
From: Ben Rockwood <benr@cuddletech.com>
To: Alan DuBoff <Alan.DuBoff@sun.com>
CC: James Grisanzio <Jim.Grisanzio@Sun.COM>, Open Solaris <opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org>
Alan DuBoff wrote:
>On Saturday 29 January 2005 11:41 am, Rich Teer wrote:
>
>
>>On Fri, 28 Jan 2005, Alan DuBoff wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Is it possible that we just nominate all of the folks in the pilot?<G>
>>>
>>>
>>That'd certainly save you a lot of typing! :-)
>>
>>
>
>I'm all for that!<g>
>
>
In a sense everyone in the pilot is nominated... I think it's really
more a matter of who
can or can not make the time commitments and the additional stress.
It's almost better
for people to self nominate just based on whether or not they can handle
the requirements,
not so much of the job, but of the time it will inevitably consume.
Maybe we should ask Jim how the ballets will be setup to vote? If it's
a multiple choice then
we need names... if its a write in, then nominations don't strictly
matter except that the proccess
helps some people decide who to vote for.
benr.
